There's more to
interviewing than wearing a suit and popping a few breath mints. Learn how to
breeze past the screening interviews and turn callbacks into offers.
Landing a plum position at a law
firm generally entails undergoing a rigorous series of interviews. The downturn
in the market and shrinking summer-program class sizes mean that decent grades,
a few extracurriculars, and even a great school pedigree may not be enough to
secure the position of your choice. Enter: the interview. This is your chance to
make an impression above and beyond your glowing resumé. Here's how to make the
most of this golden opportunity in both rounds of the process.
Round One: The Screening
Interview
If they hire 1Ls at all, firms generally skip on-campus interviews in the first
year, preferring to see resumés and evaluate you in person when you're in town.
But when you're a 2L, the interview process heats up-and moves to campus.
Depending on your school, there might be a lottery process to sign up for
screening interviews, the first round of evaluation that's used primarily to
confirm initial expectations about you based on your credentials. Generally, you
can rank firms in order of preference when you sign up. In the lottery system,
you can't be rejected outright based on your resumé, so even mediocre students
might get their 15 minutes with a recruiter from a top-ranked law firm. Tip:
Even if you don't win a scheduled audience with your firm of choice, persistence
(even a simple phone call to the recruiting contact) can get you a spot. The
number of firms you interview with depends on you and your school; at some,
students routinely meet with a dozen or more.
Prepare Yourself
Before the big day, do your homework. Sunny Chu, a recent law school grad and
current Federal Court clerk who accepted an offer at a prominent Silicon Valley
law firm, offers the following advice: "Know the firm, the practice, and if
possible, the attorney you're talking to-bios are often offered in the
hospitality rooms [waiting areas, often stocked with refreshments] or on the
firm's Web site."
Learn as much as possible about the kind of work the firm does. Interviewers are
impressed when you show them that you know what their firm has to offer. They
won't be thrilled if you gush about your interest in a practice area that they
don't have.
Check out the National Association for Law Placement (NALP) form on the
particular office of the firm at which you are interviewing. Many firms' branch
offices have stats different from the headquarters, especially when it comes to
practice areas and attorney demographics. Your career services office should
also have some useful material, such as employer evaluations from years past.
Classmates and alumni are also an invaluable resource-talk to people who have
worked at your target firm. They will usually give you the real lowdown on what
it's like to work there. Sometimes this is the only way to find out about a
firm's less desirable aspects.
Dress the Part
A professional appearance alone will not land you the job, but a slovenly one
will certainly hurt your chances. Some employers state that students may attend
interviews in business-casual attire. Many interviewers, however, would still
prefer to see you in a suit. Because firms often send multiple interviewers of
varying ages and degrees of conservatism to on-campus recruiting events, your
best bet is to stick with the suit.
Carry a leather portfolio, and bring extra copies of your resumé and
transcript. Even if they have everything, interviewers may ask you for an
additional copy just to see if you're prepared.
Sell Your Strengths
The screening interviewer generally has only about 20 minutes per candidate and
has already decided-based on your resumé, transcript, and sometimes a
legal-writing sample with case citations-whether to invite you to the firm for a
callback. In general, if the interviewer has already decided that you've got the
right stuff and should be called back, you have to do something really over the
top to lose the chance. On the flip side, if you're not up to muster on paper,
there's usually little you can do to change the interviewer's mind. If you're on
the borderline, though, let your dazzling interview skills shine.
Enoch Chang, a first-year associate and member of the recruiting committee at
McCutchen, Doyle, says, "Be yourself. When you try to create an image
that's not really you or to fit into a preconceived image of what the firm
wants, the interviewer will see right through it." Try to read your
interviewers, and go with the flow.
Don't feel pressured to discuss law-related topics. One 3L at Georgetown was
surprised when her screening interviewers seemed more taken with her oboe
playing than her law journal work or favorite courses. Following their lead,
however, she discussed wind instruments as long as they seemed interested. She
got a callback-and an offer. The bottom line: If you and your interviewer have a
common passion for opera, you'll score far more points-and make a more lasting
impression-discussing the finer points of La Traviata than Rule 23.
Be Flexible
What if your interviewer begins with a vague question such as: "So, what
can I tell you about the firm?" Rather than jumping into a
question-and-answer session right away, be prepared with a three- to five-minute
narrative that neatly presents both who you are and where your interests in the
firm lie. Begin with a statement that addresses the question, and then tie that
into your story.
John Kuehn, hiring chairman at Kirkland & Ellis in New York, adds that you
can highlight "an issue about which you are writing a paper or journal
article, something from moot court, or a legal question you wrestled with during
your 1L summer internship. You can use the same story or two over and over again
from interview to interview, but if you do, present it a bit differently each
time-this will force you to concentrate and help you avoid sounding
'scripted.'"
Location, Location, Location
If you grew up in Seattle, you'll have no difficulty proving your intention to
return there. But if you spent your entire life in L.A., interviewers may be
skeptical about your sudden desire to work in, say, Boston. Mark Weber, director
of career services at Harvard Law School and former assistant dean for career
services at the University of Illinois School of Law, suggests the following
strategy if you don't have any ties to the target city at all: "Put your
money where your mouth is. Visit the city, and if possible, try to arrange brief
meetings with the firms that you are interested in. Even a casual vacation can
turn into an interview offer if you seem truly bent on going to that city. Firms
are making an investment in you when they train you in the first year. If you
can't prove that you're serious about staying, the firm isn't going to gamble
all that time and money."
Kuehn warns, however, that "you don't want it to look as if you merely
signed up to interview with every firm in the relevant city that comes to your
campus." Make sure you have an arsenal of firm-specific comments -that go
beyond geography-to use in response to the inevitable question: "Why did
you sign up to interview here?"
Put on a Happy Face
Did you hate your civil procedure course? They'd never know it from your answer.
This isn't the time for brutal honesty; it's far wiser to talk about the
insightful professor, the interesting subject matter, and your intelligent
classmates. Interviewers eschew any hint of a negative attitude. Demonstrate
that you can find silver linings in the stormiest of legal clouds: "Try to
describe what was positive about the experience, even if you disliked it. If you
didn't get along with your 1L summer employer, don't bash them in future
interviews. As far as the firm is concerned, you'll probably be saying the same
things about them next year," says Weber.
Round Two: The Callback Interview
Congratulations if you've made it to this stage. Firms will generally let you
know via telephone if you've made callbacks, and by mail if the answer's no.
The primary purpose of the callback-usually held at the firm's office
location-is to confirm the screening interviewer's impression of you and to
determine whether your personality is a good match. According to Kuehn, the
difference between the screening and callback interviews can be summed up as
follows: "On campus, the question is, 'Does this candidate merit a more
in-depth examination?' During the callback, it's 'Would I really want to work
with this candidate?'"
The usual method of testing your "fit" is to have you interview with
four to six attorneys, half of whom will usually be partners, and then send you
off to lunch with two junior associates. Chu warns, "During the callback,
you have to sustain your energy, edge, and enthusiasm for a half-or a whole-day.
That's the biggest challenge."
A note on attire: Kirkland & Ellis's Kuehn says, "Many law offices are
now business casual all the time. It often seems to me that during callback
interviews, candidates wearing traditional business attire seem uncomfortable
and stiff." He suggests confirming ahead of time with the recruiting
coordinator and dressing according to that particular firm's dress code. If the
firm is of the hip, young Silicon Valley variety, sporting formal business
attire might actually count against you.
Give ... and Take
While the screening interview is more about selling yourself to the firm, the
callback round is a forum in which you can not only hype yourself but also
satisfy your curiosities about your potential employer. Since each interview in
the callback phase is generally about 30 minutes long, you should have time to
both talk about yourself and ask questions about the firm.
Avoid sounding canned in your inquiries, though. When the interviewer hears,
"Tell me about your summer program," for the 100th time, her response
is likely to be uninspired. Instead, consider asking questions designed to
elicit the information you want in a less obvious manner. Weber suggests the
following: "Instead of asking how much responsibility young associates are
given (the stock response will be 'a lot'), ask the interviewer about a current
project she is working on, and then ask how she assigns or is assigned work, and
if it is substantive."
Express your interest in that particular firm. If you want to take part in their
pro bono activities during the summer, tell them. If they have a special
litigation training camp you're interested in attending, let them know.
Interviewers are always impressed when you demonstrate genuine interest and at
least an inkling of what practice areas or unique firm feature you would like to
explore as a summer associate.
Do Some Digging
As you go through the day, ask relevant questions about training, mentoring,
partner contact, and feedback on assignments. The truly hard core might inquire
about the partnership track-what's the process and timeline for making partner
at the firm? Are there different partner tracks (junior vs. senior partners,
nonequity vs. equity partners)? How many people make partner each year? Also ask
(in a diplomatic way) about the attorneys' lifestyle: number of hours worked,
billing requirements, workload, level of responsibility, variety of work,
compensation, and morale. "If the lawyer is a lateral [hire] at the
firm," Kuehn adds, "ask him or her to compare the experience at this
firm with the other."
Size up the senior associates and partners. After meeting them, ask yourself if
they typify the kind of lawyer you'd like to be in a few years. Also ask the
younger associates why they chose this firm over others like it. Ideally, they
will give you the lowdown on many of the same places you are also interviewing
at. Note: If they engage in bashing other firms, chances are that their firm
isn't up to par; those who work for superior institutions generally don't put
down their competitors.
Be Tactful
If there's something controversial about the firm that you want to know about,
there are two things to keep in mind. First, if it's really important to you,
you should probably ask about it-you'll lose sleep if you don't. Second, if it's
not that important to you but you still want to know, hold off until you have
the offer in hand. Still, when asking the question (e.g., "Why is there
such a low percentage of minority partners?" or "Will I have to defend
tobacco corporations?"), Weber notes that the issue is not "what is
asked, but how it is asked. Ask the interviewers for their take on the subject,
but don't be hostile or defensive." Focus on learning about the issue, not
on airing your grievances.
Never ask about benefits. "'What's in it for me?' questions are premature
at this stage and are irrelevant until an offer is on the table. It will look
… like you are focused on all the wrong things, and you might come across as
greedy," warns Weber.
Honesty is the Best Policy
Never pretend to know something-or someone-that you really don't. Kuehn
illustrates this with a particularly amusing anecdote: "Some time ago,
during a callback interview with a 2L interested in bankruptcy work, one of my
partners mentioned a publication that our bankruptcy department writes and sends
to clients and law schools. The candidate enthusiastically reported that he was
familiar with the publication and had been reading it for 'years.' In fact, the
bankruptcy group had just recently put out the second quarterly edition ever. No
offer, of course."
If you're interviewing in your 3L year because you didn't get an offer from your
2L employer, don't be afraid. "You shouldn't dodge the question," says
Weber. "Relate what happened in a positive light. Explain what you learned
over the summer, and if the reason you didn't get an offer was because you
didn't 'fit' with the firm, reassure the interviewer that you have the ability
to do the work, and consider getting a reference from your former employer who
can at least attest to your work product."
Don't Forget Your Manners
While you may feel more comfortable asking certain questions of the younger
associates, treat all the attorneys with the same level of respect. While
recruiters often present the lunch hour-usually spent with more junior
attorneys-as separate from the rest of the day, don't let your guard down. You
are still being evaluated and should treat the meal just as you would another
office interview. Although "you don't have to spend the entire lunch period
talking about the firm," advises Kuehn, "spending no time doing so
suggests that you aren't really interested after all. Your lunchmates will
convey this to the more senior attorneys. Don't assume that the lawyers making
offer decisions will ignore the impressions of the younger attorneys. These are
your prospective peers; if they don't like you, that hurts your chances."
The lunch might also be used as a measure of your fit in an egalitarian culture.
"Exercise good table manners and be polite to the waitstaff. Saying
'please' and 'thank you' will go a long way in furthering your cause," says
Chang. "Moreover, general politeness will reflect on how you will interact
with other people in the firm, particularly the support staff. At McCutchen,
Doyle everyone who works for the firm is treated with the same level of
respect."
Case the Joint
As you are being escorted around the firm, observe the atmosphere. Do people
seem happy there? Are people outside of their offices and chatting at the coffee
maker? Does the support staff seem content? Do you like the look of the office?
When you're being taken from office to office for interviews, do the attorneys
know where they're going? Are they acquainted with the lawyer with whom you're
interviewing next? Ask yourself if you'd be comfortable spending your days-and
possibly quite a few nights- in that space.
With several excellent offers in hand, one associate made his decision not only
on the quality of the people that he met, but also on some of the intangibles
that had struck him during his office visits. At one particular firm, the
secretaries, who were mostly of his parents' generation, all had Limp Bizkit
playing on their radios. This quirk distinguished that firm enough to lead him
to accept the offer.
Tie Up Loose Ends
After all is said and done, write thank-you notes to the firms you interviewed
with. For your top-choice firms, a handwritten note is a nice gesture that
demonstrates your sincere interest in this age of mass e-mail. Since you may
meet several people at each firm, at least send a note to your recruiting
partner, asking him or her to convey your regards to the others. A thoughtful
message to a partner you clicked with can go a long way in furthering your case.
Once you have offers in hand, don't vanish! Keep in touch with your contact
person at each firm, and check in every now and then to let them know where you
stand with your decision. Remember that there are a lot of people who would love
to take one of the offers you are holding. If you are certain you are not going
to take an offer, decline it immediately.
Final Words
Kuehn offers two tips: "First, remember that recruiting is a two-way
process. The firm is as much a candidate that you are interviewing as the other
way around. The firm only makes the preliminary decisions-whether to extend a
callback and make an offer. You decide which offer to take. You need to elicit
what information you can from your 'candidates' so you can make that decision.
Too many students get to the last step in the process (i.e., deciding between
offers) and can't distinguish between firms. Ask questions about the things that
matter to you, even if you're afraid they may be 'sensitive.' (If an issue that
is important to you is too 'sensitive' for a lawyer at the firm to discuss, then
you don't want to work there, and you'd best figure that out before you accept
the offer.) If need be, after you've received an offer, ask to make a return
visit to the office, or to talk to more lawyers on the phone.
"Second, relax. Although a few 2Ls end up accepting offers with firms with
whom they spend many years after law school, I think that's the exception, not
the rule. The recruiting process is highly subjective, and the information
exchanged is usually selective, for both the firm and the student. The only way
for you and a firm to really determine whether you are right for each other is
for you to work there for a couple of years after law school. Take the selection
process seriously, but don't add pressure by thinking that a wrong step will
cause irreparable, career-long damage."